The Lambing and Peewit storms – but winter on the mountain is far from over
In like a lion and out like a lamb (or vice versa) is a well-known saying about the weather in March, in this part of the world. During the first few days in March we have been experiencing the effects of a polar maritime front and the main ski runs have been much improved. This year the Cas has had excellent cover; the mobile yellow hut at the top of the gun barrel, designed to shelter lifties when we load from here due to lack of snow lower down, has yet to be utilised - long may that continue.
The first sign of spring in our gardens brings more choice of how we all spend our leisure time. The golf clubs, the bike, the boat and the garden are just some of the options rather than going skiing, and once the skis have been put away there tends to be a reluctance to get them back out again. Despite the arrival of the lapwings on the Insh marshes and first early lambs lower down in the Strath, winter is far from over here on the mountain - it’s not unusual to ski beyond mid April and even into May - quite often we experience a longer season than in the Alps. Longer days and kinder weather between the spring storms can really make for some excellent ski days.
Although the web pages and webcams help, we are always amazed by the misinformation that gets put out about skiing conditions on the hill, even in our local villages. I know this is not just a problem here, but at other ski centres as well. The thin strips of snow seen from the A9, ten miles away, are actually quite wide ski runs which currently offer over 2km of skiing; the Ptarmigan basin at the top is out of sight and therefore out of mind.
This year the Easter holidays are very early starting around 19th of March, although some schools do not return until the 20th April so we hope we will be able to offer skiing throughout this period.
With the lighter evenings it’s now possible to put the skis on after work and, using ski skins, climb up through the ski area to the top of the mountain. This is always a special time of day on the mountain which is often almost deserted with the exception of the pisting team and a few late climbers coming off the hills. (See pictures)
Bob
March 9th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
Dear Mr Cairngorm, I went on to your mountain on Sat 8th March 2008 and was very disappointed at you service!
Why do you charge people the full ticket cost when there is very little uplift or no uplift ( apart from the Funicular )?
Do you realise the longterm damage that you are inflicting on the reputation of your resort? For a newbie to your resort it would be a very disappointing return for the cost. The weather is in the hands of no one and anyone with any knowledge of the history of the weather and the conditions knows about just how bad it gets at the top of the mountain and does not kid themselves on.
Your resort however is quite happy to charge full prices regardless and this is making a mockery of joe public.
If you operated a fairer policy of charging less for less of a ski area being available and also some kind a refund system or voucher ( money off next visit ) when the weather shuts the mountain you just might get people to return.
I have heard also that the loyal season ticket holders do not recieve much loyalty back. There is no season ticket area designated in your parking system!
Imagine a season ticket holder at a football ground not having his seat kept for him?
Please can you try to fix this anomaly and get some credibility back for your resort.
March 10th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Thanks , your comments provide a useful opportunity to explain our pricing policy. We already do quite a lot of what you are suggesting. We do operate a voucher system with discounts off the next visit when the weather is bad and skiing is very limited, but on Saturday we were able to ski off the funicular and also had the CAS open which is over a kilometer long and in good condition, although I appreciate the weather was not that good. The main difficulty on Saturday was lack of area for beginners. We also have a refunds policy that includes offering full refunds when we have to close the area because of the weather. You will find a copy of this on our web site.
We have tried to set our price at a realistic level. We also believe our 3 day flexible pass, which works out at £21.50 is excellent value. Compare this to other activities: Hiring a full suspension mountain bike for a day costs £40, Sail a laser dingy for a day costs £40, having a go at Clay pigeon shooting is £35 for an hour, Play a round of golf is around £30 , Go pony trekking is £35 for 90 mins. A quad bike trek cost £35 for only 1 hour and ski/board at Xscape (Breahead) is £31 for 2hours at peak times
We also provide a comprehensive range of season pass benefits, but with the size of the car parks we can not provide dedicated parking for season pass holders. See below
CAIRNGORM MOUNTAIN SNOWSPORTS HOLDER DISCOUNTS & BENEFITS 2007/2008
All food and beverage outlets at CML – 10% discount on all food and drink. Excludes alcohol, evening dining and special offers. Expires end of November 2008.
CairnGorm Retail Outlets – 10% discount on all items over £5 not including special offers and sale items. Please note that discount does not apply on gift vouchers. Expires end on November 2008.
CairnGorm Funicular Railway – Free access on the Funicular all summer (normal conditions apply) – Expires end of November 2008.
Other Scottish Ski Areas – Present your snowsports pass at any other Scottish Ski Resort and get 30% off a full price day ticket. (Discount is discretionary and may be withdrawn under certain circumstances). Expires end of April 2008.
Other great local discounts in shops ,restaurants and local attrcations with your snowsports pass
Bob
March 10th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
I wholeheartedly agree with you Bob! Skiing on the mountain is fairly priced and competitive when compared to other activities. There are times when I may feel the total opposite to this after a ‘bad’ days skiing (if there is such a thing) but I remind myself that this is the fault of the weather in a harsh environment and not the fault of the staff/management at Cairngorm - who do a fantastic job. As you have explained before, the work, and therefore costs, continue even if there are no/very few visitors due to the weather or if the snow conditions and coverage aren’t at there best. I feel we are privaliged to have access to such a facility in a remote and beautiful area and I am perfectly happy to pay for the service.
Also, this is my first year as a season pass holder and haven’t been at all disappointed with the benefits on offer. I understand that the car parking is already sparce and to have a dedicated season pass area would fuel this problem even more. After all we must remember that this is a car park halfway up a mountain in the most stunning and wild, although fragile, area in the UK and can’t just keep being extended to allow us to drive our cars alone.
Keep up the good work and fingers crossed for more snow!!
March 11th, 2008 at 12:29 am
I appreciate Saturday was bad weather wise (to put it mildly!) but we persevered and did get some skiing in. Sunday however, the conditions were brilliant! Best days skiing in ages.
March 11th, 2008 at 11:18 am
Bob
i think you miss the point of Kornelious’s post
the fact that there is 1k of available piste makes no odds, to charge £20+ for the train is unnaceptable as this cannot match the diversity that a few surface lists can offer and the possibilites that this would open up
also the train only option causes hold ups whilst taking skis / boards on and off and having to filter through the ptarmigan building, reducing ski time and miles
£20+ is a rip off
whilst we are talking cash … £ 40.00 for a bike hire .. get real most full sussers are nearer £25 for the day
your quoted £31 @ Braehead includes all kit , if you add a ski hire @ CGM it squares up to nearer £45
Braehead for all its faults offers reliable, rock and wind free teaching enviroments for younger , less hardened skiers , has a variety of excellent retail and food outlets that CGM cannot match
so not quite as one sided as you seem to see it !!
sad to see CGM going to waste like this
March 11th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
I agree with Kornelious on this one, lets look at it from another angle, if you went into a restaurant and ordered a 3 course meal you would be quite happy to pay for it assuming you got all 3 courses. If however they only had soup left on the menu you would not expect to pay for the other two courses. The similarity is that CML expect you to pay the same whether its just the funicular and a very aged Cas T bar or the whole Area.
Secondly, I am not interested in what it costs to go sailing, golfing, moutain biking, I want to go skiing, for one day at a time, when conditions are suitable and I can get off work. I don’t want a 3 day pass or other discounts at local shops - I’m a skier not a shopper.
Thirdly, if I do choose to go to Braehead then I don’t worry about weather or antiquated infrastructure. Plus I save £40 each time on fuel not travelling up the A9.
CML get your heads out of the sand - an quickly. The picture at the top of this blog says it all - deserted slopes - do something now before you terminally bleed to death.
March 11th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
Good to get a bit of reaction to the pricing policy discussion. One point suggested was that the slopes are quieter because of the high pricing at Cairn Gorm. Interesting comment –if only it was that simple- yes price is always part of the equation on how we choose to spend our leisure time, but the reasons for quieter slopes are far more complex. If you did an analysis of skier day numbers and ski conditions across the 5 Scottish ski areas you would find that even with excellent conditions numbers have not been what they would have been a few years ago at any of the areas, regardless of prising policies.
The fact is the market has changed. It’s hardly surprising following several poor winters and particularly last winter. Of course there are other changes including demographics, globalisation of winter sports tourism and increased choice of how we spend our leisure time. Needles to say the ski areas are well aware of all these issues and try and find the right balance of providing a service and covering their costs. Here at Cairn Gorm we have tried to be innovative, offering different products and services- not all to do with snow tourism. The 3-day and 7 day flexible ski passes are successful examples of adapting to these market changes, I am sure other developments will follow.
PS - the reason the slopes are deserted in the pictures is that they were taken in the evening when were closed!
Thanks
Bob
March 12th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
I think a little more consistency wouldn’t go amiss. I was up on Thursday 28th February and the price was £21 for funicular and Cas, with a £5 off food voucher. Good value.
I was back up on Saturday March 1st, and the price was £26 with no voucher for the same uplift. Bad value.
If only the Cas is open, the price should reflect that.
March 13th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
I cant’t believe the number of people complaining over the cost of a pass. Get over it - it’s £20 odd quid for a day in the great outdoors. The above restaurant comparison is ridiculous. You could easily be disappointed by your dining experience whether they serve 3 courses or 7.
As for Braehead, unless you are a total novice, complete boredom sets in after about 20 mins.
The train opens up virtually the whole mountain and to complain about taking off your skis/board beggars belief.
Keep up the good work. I will continue to ski Scotland as long as there is any snow to be found and enjoy the experience whatever the weather brings.
March 13th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
We are thinking about skiing is Scotland next week over easter. We’ve never skied in Scotland before. Here’s how we are going to decide which resort to go to in order of importance:
1. If we can’t ski (snow’s gone / wind / whatever) can we have our money back. (we can do other stuff for the day and come back tomorrow)
2. Which one has snow (they all have some)
3. Does the piste map look exciting
4. can we book up in advance so we don’t waste time
5. Cost
I’m as surprised as any one. Cost turns out to be the least important. we just want to know if (and lets face it, it’s quite likely) we can’t ski we get our money back on the tickets / ski hire / lessons which have not been used. No doubts, hesitations, riders, clauses, stupid hoops to jump through and cancellation fees. A simple policy of our money back. (We’d just re-book for tomorrow.)
So how does cgm come out? 2 / 3/ 4 are all great. Cost (5) is about the same as the other resorts. However 1, the most important looks pretty bad. After several readings of the canx policy I’m still not 100% certain what the legalese means and I can’t find a definite statement of the sort, if we turn up and don’t like the weather or reduced service can we have our money back. (like I keep saying we’d just re book for another day)
This means for the want of a simply expressed clearly advertised forward thinking canx policy we will be skiing not at cgm but the Nevis ranges this easter. a rough estimate of what we will spend on two days skiing is around 300 quid for the family of 4 lift tickets /hire/ 1hr lesson and probably another 100 quid on drinks and lunch on the mountain. Now sure 400 quid might not be that much to cgm but if skiing in scotland is any good we will be back….. to the Nevis range.
March 13th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
Quote:
‘We also have a refunds policy that includes offering full refunds when we have to close the area because of the weather. You will find a copy of this on our web site.’
Is your policy not a 50% refund for less than 3 hours and No Refund for more than 3 hours?
March 13th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
Thanks for the comments - lots of valuable feedback for us to work on .
bob
March 13th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
Having skied in the area for years here’s my view on where the low numbers are coming from.
1/ Removing certain uplift, that core skiers, and boarders preferred.
2/ Only opening lifts as required, (never used to happen)
3/ Charging full whack for 1-2 lifts (daylight robbery springs to mind!)
4/ closing the lifts earlier than other resorts.
5/ The extortionate price of eating, or even a cup of tea.
6/ No new investment in equipment (lifts)
7/ Making sure everything is able to run on time, more resources? staff ?
8/ Tell it as it is, seen it so often and not just from Cairngorm, where most weather related web sites are predicting 70- 90mph winds, and your site is stating 30 40mph. and were planning opening such and such… only prob being there’s no chance they were ever going to turn a wheel.
There’s some feedback!
March 13th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
Well Mr Tonebanno as you have mentioned on another thread you are in a privileged position to be able to “usually ski 2/3 times a year in the Alps” so £20 is probably loose change in your pocket. I on the other hand am less fortunate and I have to be more scrupulous on spending my disposable income.
Yes you could get 7 courses in a restaurant and be disappointed but then the same could apply to the ski area if all the lifts were open. All I’m saying is that I don’t expect to pay for three when I only get one - the same with the lifts if they are all open fine, if not I expect some discount - but hey what the hell were only the customers !
March 14th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
Dear Mr. Jones Thanks for your straight talking feedback. The Blog initiative is really helping to provide the opportunity for our customers to provide useful feedback. Your points about why there are lower numbers, than a few years ago, at Cairn Gorm are interesting, all but one suggests this is a Cairngorm rather than Scottish skiing issue, however the evidence suggests just the opposite. In fact if anything the market share at Cairngorm continues to improve. Happy to meet with you to discuss when you are next here, but for a starter I have made a few comments below.
The one point that is generic is about honest forecasts and this is one that we have tried to do. Forecasts are only 70% accurate and can change quite quickly- sometimes wind direction and small changes can make a big difference to what service we can operate. I do take the point that updates are not always fast enough. We invested in web cameras so that potential visitors can see for themselves what’s going on and we would like to put live weather information on these – hopefully this further investment will help
We continue to invest in the ski aspect of the business despite a number of very poor winters. Last year we installed a new trainer tow in the Ptarmigan bowl. But you are right what is needed is significant reinvestment in the old lift systems in all the areas. Unfortunately the industry simply does not have the money to do this.
As far as lifts operating policy – we try and ensure we can service as much snow as is possible from uplift. For example when ever we can open the West wall poma we do. We also try and open on time – but sometimes icing up and post storm damage means it takes longer.
Thanks again for your feedback . We also have an one line survey and on site feedback forms – all responses get careful consideration and help us to improve our service. This is a very important aspect of running this business …
Bob
March 14th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
James, £20 is not loose change. Lower your expectation level when skiing in Scotland and therefore be delighted on the rare days its perfect. FYI I just spent £16.70 on a return Scotrail ticket between Glasgow and Edinburgh today - fancy that paying for a train service with no skiing involved at all!!??!! Kind of puts riding the funicular for up to 7 hours to the top of a mountain into perspective.
Anyway off to Nevis tomorrow as back corries due to open and I havent skiied them for years (shut every time I’ve been recently). I will be disappointed if I get there and they are not open however I appreciate this risk before I set off and will not be looking for any cash back just because their website states they expect them to be open.
March 18th, 2008 at 10:36 am
To put costs into some perspective, last Saturday it cost me £31.00 for 2 hours skiing in the Snow Dome at Milton Keynes. I am also sure that Cairngorm Mountain are not turning in huge profits and are doing what the can to juggle the costs to make the business as viable as possible, in order to maintain skiing for the future.
My last time on Cairngorm was in January, brilliant day, best snow cover for years, I paid the full day ticket price but through my own choice left at 2pm, based on the Snow Dome charges this would of cost approx £50, then again in a Snow Dome I would have given up long before through boredom.
March 18th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Just want to say that although the skiing can be expensive (me and my wife paid £75 on 2 lift passes and ski hire for her on saturday, for me it was worth every penny. I had 7 hours skiing (first train at 8:50, Cas T-Bar at 4:20) and managed to ski to the bottom. Queues were managed well and teh WWP opened to ease the Ciste.
Thank you for a good day skiing, and though the weather was perfect, the service and length we could ski for also made it a great day.
TOm
March 24th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
I’m afraid I agree with most of the negative comments. The simple fact is that Cairngorm is not as it used to be. Be that from weather conditions or commercial decisions? Imagine if the numbers of Scottish skiers were still at the numbers 20 years ago! The website would be flooded with complaints and rightly so. Skier’s probably demand too much now of Cairngorm. As once the flagship of Scottish Ski-ing, it has no right to that now. Poor old Glenshee, given the weather, would wipe the floor with Cairngorm. They manage, they have little year-round income from tourists! And good old Glencoe offers a ticket price reduction when lifts are not in use. No other Scottish Ski Resort has received as much bad press as CG and I feel sorry for those who have remained loyal to it and respect their defence of it. CG is now my last resort.
May 1st, 2008 at 3:19 pm
I’m afraid I also agree with Allymac & others.
As a previous longterm season ticket holder at CairnGorm I feel sad to look at the place now. Apart from the funicular, a collection of outdated lifts or remnants of those that probably will not work again remain!
In no other ski areas abroad have I seen disused buildings (Middle Station - White Lady & Ciste Cafe) & redundant lifts just left (in a National Park) to deteriorate.
I would not suggest like Allymac that CG would be my last resort but I do think that there needs to be a serious review of skier facillities at the mountain to ensure the unique experience of skiing in Scotland is maintained.