the snow gates
On many occasions over the years I have stood by the closed snow gates at Glenmore with hardly a breath of wind and wondered why on earth the road could not be opened. It was not until I joined the CML team that I really understood the problem. Firstly can I say that we are keen to open the gates as quickly as we can – apart from making business sense it also avoids the frustrations of our customers and other car park users. On Thursday we had a nightmare of a day, when lifts were operating and skiers enjoying the runs and yet at the same time we could not keep the road open for up traffic. We did try our best and I am sorry if you were one of those who could not make it up, but the heavy snow showers coupled with the wind just meant that despite ploughs working throughout the day, there were times when the road was just not safe to open.
The road from Glenmore to Coire Cas is a public road, but as far as the Council is concerned it is a low priority (the same category as clearing footpaths in villages). Clearly this service would be totally inadequate for recreational users wanting to get to the car parks and therefore we have the responsibility to try and keep the road clear during day time hours. The Council come round with their plough once in the morning and they do provide salt. We also have access to an old council blower if the snow is too deep for the plough, but apart from that we have to use CML staff, fuel, ploughs, and gritter to do the best job we can. As you can imagine this can be sizable cost in manpower and plant and adds just another dimension to operating the ski area.
The wind can be more of a problem than the snow. Snow on its own is fairly easy to clear, but the usual scenario is that winds blow across the link road and on the last stretch up to the car park, creating drifts almost immediately the snowplough has passed. On some occasions the road can be just very slippy with new snow and totally unsuitable for cars with summer tyres. Cars with winter tyres may well be able to make it up, but it only takes one car to get stuck or skid to cause a major blockage, which could cause further delays and spoil everyone’s day.
A further complication is the car park, which incidentally is not a public car park. Sometimes we have to clear the car park of snow prior to being able to park. The road may be fine, but without somewhere to park, traffic would be impossible to manage. We also need to get the staff up first to manage people when they get to the car park. We do all this as fast as we possibly can, and we understand fully that both skiers and climbers are keen to get up as soon as possible.
Occasionally we have the opposite problem with cars in the car park, but the downhill road in bad condition due to weather coming in during the day. In extreme conditions we have convoyed cars down behind the plough. In stormy conditions the gates may be closed for the night, this decision and for that matter all road closure decisions are ratified by the Aviemore police. On more than one occasion we have found a car full of climbers stuck half way up, having taken the decision to drive past the close gates. Sadly the outcome of this selfish action is embarrassment and the inevitable delay in opening the road for others.
Some people think we should charge car park users to help pay for managing the parking and the road. Now there’s an idea?
Bob
January 24th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
I know you need to make your revenue for parking, but charging to park could act as a negative move. You’d have to police the road up because cars would park where they wanted. I live near the Peak District in Derbyshire, and there was uproar over it. Cars park where they can free of charge.
As a regular skier since 94, why not have donation boxes to pay for the upkeep. Install them where you can, and you should get some return. Personally I see problems when you charge for something, because say a car get’s hit with ski’s or bumps another on ice, or something like that.. the ‘where there’s blame there a claim’ era we live in.. Just be a nightmare.
The guys do a good job in the car park,and I thought I’d share my views with you. Should be up end of Feb on the Ski Norwest Coach (be a change from driving up from derbyshire) so fingers crossed for continuing good conditions!
January 25th, 2008 at 12:27 am
Yes, charge for the car parking esp in Coire Cas. That way everyone who gets the advantage of the high level car parking contributes something to the costs, plant and man power required - surely that’s only fair.
I would suggest not charging for the Ciste car park and while this may remove some revenue, it has the advantage on busy days of providing an incentive for more of the people that don’t have such a need to be parked in the Cas to park round in the Ciste, leaving more space in the Cas car park for families and those seeking equipment hire and lessons, plus the more short term parking of Funicular visitors.
Overall charging for parking in Coire Cas is a win-win scenario. It will provide some useful additional revenue and it ensures an equity whereby everyone who makes use of the high level car parking contributes towards the costs, an equity that is currently lacking.
January 25th, 2008 at 10:31 am
When I first went to Cairngorm on 2002 I was surprised I didn’t have to pay for parking. I would expect to pay for parking at a ski resort (all the snow domes I have been to you have had to pay to park outside). If you’re spending a lot of money keeping the car park open then surely paying is sensible. It could be you do a scheme like the supermarkets where if you spend money on food or drink you get the money back?
January 25th, 2008 at 11:18 am
You can not be serious! Charging for parking?? I thought that would have been budgeted into the severly overpriced lift tickets! 28 pounds for a day spent riding the ptarmigan?!? with no offer of a reduced price for only having one run in a skiable condition… one run! I realise it’s no cheap to run an operation like Cairngorm but when you pay the equivalent of 26 and a half quid for a lift ticket in Tignes (which links also with val d’iser to form the EPIC Espace killey) talking about an extra car parking charge does grate a little. Charge the climbers if they want to park in the top carpark maybe? seeing as they are supposed to be there to climb hills maybe they wouldn’t mind a little warm up to start the day!?
January 25th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
I have a season pass but would be happy to pay for parking in the Cas car park.
You’ve already made the point that car park capacity is effectively lower than it used to be - for various reasons including more climbers parking there, and also the almost complete absence of coaches. There are now lots of people now using your car park but not contributing to your costs.
I’d suggest though if you do start charging it might be an idea to ring fence a proportion of the cash you raise as a carbon contribution - which will also make the point that people, including me, who drive up on their own should consider car sharing.
January 25th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
I’m with Paul. Charge the Climbers. Surely if they are Climbing and not paying for a Lift Ticket or for anything on the mountain then charge them, but don’t frighten low budget skiers with charges.
Soon as you charge, cars will park anywhere on the road up. You’ll be forking out for bollards, police agro for road blocking, Parent and Child spaces,,, it goes on. Ask for a donation as I put earlier . It funds the RNLI very effectively.
January 25th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
depends if you want to raise cash or maximise parking capacity by making a charge? I would say charging is a reasonable approach though as a season pass holder who hauls ass up the hill pretty early to get a decent spot I’d have a problem stumping up myself!
you could figure out some way of implementing a parking validation system whereby anyone buying a train or ski ticket get their parking “validated” and don’t pay any extra, but if folk don’t spend they get a parking charge.
what chance of a reliable park and ride system operating from lower down the hill (than the ciste)? not too many options i know
also the public bus time change (last year I think?) is madness - when they used to run earlier I’m sure it saved several dozen cars from being in the carpark with staff taking it etc.? You still (i assume) give those guys a fair bit of your ad budget? how can their decision be influenced / changed??
January 25th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
meant to say too, i don’t really have a frustration with the gates as currently operated and appreciate the difficulties.
Though on days when the link road is the problem as you describe, maybe you could concentrate on clearing the car park and down-road and then implement the two-way system on the down road sooner rather than later??
January 25th, 2008 at 7:48 pm
All useful feedback , thanks
bob
January 26th, 2008 at 7:52 am
On the gates - I take your point about even one vehicle getting stuck could cause problems but would it not be possible to make a judgement that the road was fit for vehicles with winter tyres and then let them through?
Last Thursday I noticed that some vehicles were indeed being let through even though the road was closed including a butchers van from Aviemore which presumably was making a delivery to the Base station. That is very frustrating/annoying to see!!
January 26th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
I feel I must take issue with you regarding your comment on the Council’s perceived attitude to clearing the road of snow. Of course it is low priority, why should it be anything else. It is a road to nowhere, effectively a cul de sac, there are no residential properties, it only services a private company (heavily subsidised in years gone by). Why should taxpayers money be spent clearing this road before the footpaths through the local villages. I wonder if other businesses in the area asked for their “own” blower from the council would they get one - I doubt it.
PS I am not anti-ski I first skied Cairngorm back in the early 1970’s, but made the fatal mistake, 17 years ago, of going to the Alps - I have never skied in Scotland since - you just don’t have the product anymore.
January 27th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
Bob, keep up the good work for skiing in scotland - dont stop thinking. Its a tough job but I just hope there will always be someone with ability who is prepared to do it. - a BASI instructor.
January 28th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
As regarding John’s comments above; each to their own. I usually ski 2/3 times a year in the Alps and as often as possible in Scotland. Anyone skiing on Sat 12th Jan in Scotland was rewarded with an absolutely stunning day. What made this even more pleasuarable was the fact that many people have given up on Scottish skiing therefore reducing the crowds for the rest of us.
I also reread the original article and detect no complaint about the situatuion regarding the council clearing the access road. Just a statement of fact.
As for Car parking - Charge £2 to £5 per car. Personally I would not even notice. Everywhere I go I am charged between 80p and £2.40 hour for parking so a small fixed daily fee would hardly be a surprise or onerous.
January 28th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
I feel charging for parking must be considered as an option - obviously not ideal but operating a road/car park in such a remote place must require considerable effort and finance. The price of lift passes (as argued earlier) could contribute to this but I presume this money is going towards the brilliant funicular, mass improvement in building infrastructure and successful diversification over the years.
I’m a season pass holder in my mid twentys, from Yorkshire and have been skiing at Cairngorm since the age of 9 (and worked there briefly a few years ago!) but have been to France and Austria too. I honestly believe Cairngorm is one of my favourites because of its ‘wildness’ which you just can’t experience anywhere else - or at least not at the same cost. After all, its the unpredictability that makes this sport such good fun!!
January 29th, 2008 at 10:46 am
I would just like to come back on John’s comment… “I wonder if other businesses in the area asked for their own blower from the Council they get one …….”. CML is social Enterprise, a non profit distributing company and owned by a charitable Trust. It is not just another business, far from it- it is a business but there is a lot more to it . The operations on Cairn Gorm help to underpin a very fragile local economy and the indirect benefit to our local community is considerable. CML is the most popular attraction in the National park and helps to sustain year round tourism in our area. Nearly half a million tourists visit the car parks each year and it is the most popular point of access to the Cairngorms for walking and climbing. All of these visitors make a positive contribution to the economy of our area.
Bob
January 29th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
Of course you should be charging for parking. Allow for the cost in the season ticket price and give holders a windscreen sticker. Discount the car park price off all other uplilt tickets. This will produce extra revenue from those who use the car park but dont contribute to your revenue (climbers sightseers etc). You would however have to close the carpark overnight.
January 29th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
John, like tonebanno I ski in the Alps 2 or 3 times a year, I also ski elsewhere in the world, this year I’ll be spending mid February at Mammoth in California. However I have had some of my most rewarding and enjoyable days on the Scottish hills and intend to keep on enjoying them - I don’t feel the need to opt for cushier options in the Alps whilst ignoring what Scotland offers but there we go.
Anyway, as for parking I’m not sure it’s a great idea to add cost to what is already a relatively expensive (in comparison to the other Scottish ski areas) day ticket. However I do think it’s fair to charge people who don’t contribute by buying lift tickets. Perhaps it’s worth considering having a charge on all cars that’s redeemable on any tickets bought that day with season ticket holders getting free parking too?
January 29th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
I’ve often wondered before why CML hasn’t considered charged for parking given the diversity of users of the facilities. I’d be all for it. It works well at the 7 Stanes facilities and I would hope that it would encourage more car-sharing.
January 29th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
Makes sense to me to charge for parking. We were among the people the day of evacuation off the Mountain (early January) & the ploughs with dedicated staff worked hard to convoy us down.
This all cost money, where would we have been with-out this service, prob stuck in the car park.
We tend to take all this for granted and after all we did go up there at our own risk.
While we waited about an hour in the car park my young daughter asked me “what would Bill Gates (he’s rich) do in this situation ?”
Easy answer “wait for the snow plough convoy” says it all.
After all we pay for most other car parks, they dont come with a free snow plough convoy.
Must be cheaper than going to the Alps.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
I’m old enough to remember the wee hut at the end of the Cas car park where you paid your dosh unless you were dropping some folk off - nobody complained and it seemed a pefectly reasonable thing to do! I think a charge should be re-introduced - I am sure it wouldn’t have to be exorbitant and would maybe encourage car share - it would also generate some income from folk who currently do not make any financial contribution to the infrastructure - it will not be the first time that a climber/walker has been brought down off the hill on a blood wagon or a Pistenbullen free gratis!! I do think that season ticket holders - no I’m not one of them - should be able to park FOC, they do after all make a significant upfront contribution (not without risk on lousy ski years).
February 4th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
I also travel down from Inverness, to take my daughter to Snowlimit - and wouldnt mind paying £1/£2 pounds for parking each week. I think the idea of Season Ticket holders getting parking FOC very reasonable & fair.
On the subject of Season Ticket: its an absolute belter that the Snowlimit kids get access to Season Tickets at a reduced price - but unforunately I never take this offer up - as I have never been able to afford a full Season pass for myself! (Which would allow me to take my daughter up as often as we wanted - she is too young to ski herself). Any chance of having a “Local” Adult reduction similar to what is offered as a matter of course for the Highland Juniors??
October 16th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
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